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Ups & Downs Hitting Coal

Demand is there, but W.Va. suffering from cuts in production

June 19, 2013

WHEELING — The coal industry’s troubles have been well documented over the past few years, but West Virginia Coal Association Vice President Chris Hamilton said he believes the worldwide need for......

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daWraith

Jun-19-13 6:23 AM

What is William Shatner doing in the coal industry?

BBBWHAHAHAHAAH! Kirk to Spock. beam me up!

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daWraith

Jun-19-13 6:27 AM

"and that has resulted in a lot of layoffs and that has resulted in the state of West Virginia's tax coffers being a little lighter," he said, noting coal production in West Virginia alone has decreased by 25 percent over the past four years."

Now wait! Local IDIOT posters here like GetaClue and Wonderlie have ASSURED US with figures (from 2010!) that the Coal Industry is BOOMING and hiring is UP under His Royal Highness, the Barack of Obama!!!!

Barack even said so in his campaign last year.

Are you saying they LIED to us?

I wonderwhy . . . . . .

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mikeyd

Jun-19-13 8:35 AM

they have been hiring new redhats in this area.they aren't making $70,000 a year but they are working every day.

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dolphin3111

Jun-19-13 8:37 AM

China and Germany are building coal fired power plants like there's no tomorrow. This is also loading the atmosphere with CO2. That's "green".

Exporting is not helping our own power industry here in the US though. It's costing power companies millions, possibly billions to stay in business.

Even though the price of coal is going down on the global market, government (EPA) restrictions here in the US are making it more and more expensive to burn coal. We will pay dearly on our electric bills.

OK, WVUGEO. Run with it! ....... Tell us about CO2 conversion again.

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WVUGEO

Jun-19-13 8:48 AM

One of those foreign markets we might be shipping our Coal to is China, since, in a presentation made back in October of 2004, at the 3rd US-China Clean Energy Workshop in Morgantown, "Coal to Clean Fuel; The Shenhua Investment in Direct Coal Liquefaction", WVU Professor Jerald Fletcher said that China was making synthetic crude oil from coal at a cost of $24 per barrel. But, West Virginia University themselves were just, this May 28, 2013, awarded "US Patent 8,449,632 - Sewage Material in Coal Liquefaction", which gives WVU ownership of a process that converts Coal and a number of Carbon-recycling wastes into crude petroleum, which WVU says can be added directly to crude petroleum going into an oil refinery. Maybe we're not getting the full story reported to us when it comes to coal.

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WVUGEO

Jun-19-13 8:58 AM

dolphin3111: Aside from the now-incontrovertible fact that the Icelandic-American company, "Carbon Recycling International", using in part technology developed at the University of Southern California, is converting Carbon Dioxide into fuel alcohol which is being sold in service stations in Sweden and Denmark, our local Bayer Corporation has developed tech that converts CO2 into plastics manufacturing raw materials, and is now operating a CO2-recycling plant in Germany, making plastics using CO2 reclaimed from a Coal-fired electric power plant. At least one editor of this rag knows all about this stuff, but he isn't talking; maybe he's scared of the negativists like you and Wraithy.

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WVUGEO

Jun-19-13 9:12 AM

Further, the United States Navy has developed an entire suite of technologies that, first, reclaims CO2 from the environment, and, then, converts that CO2 into liquid hydrocarbon fuels. We won't cite any of their patents here, there are a lot of them, but, in a news release from the US Naval Research Laboratory, issued last September 24, 2012, "Fueling the Fleet, Navy Looks to the Seas", our own US Navy said they can make perfectly suitable jet fuel, on board their ships, starting with Carbon Dioxide reclaimed from the air or water, at a cost as low as three bucks a gallon. Again, we sent one of the editors of this rag a copy of that news release not long after the Navy issued it. CO2 is a valuable raw material resource, we shouldn't be punishing our vital Coal-use industries because of it.

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WVUGEO

Jun-19-13 9:32 AM

We noted that someone almost immediately clicked "disagree" on our several comments below. What are you disagreeing with? All of the statements we made are true, incontrovertible; they can be thoroughly documented from impeccable sources. Again, one of the editors of this rag has all of that documentation; maybe he's just scared of being disagreed with by lazy negativists.

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dolphin3111

Jun-19-13 9:41 AM

WVU, actually I'm very positive about CO2 and burning coal and Natural gas. People have been stripping this earth of green vegitation for years. We need the CO2 in the atmosphere to make the plants and trees that are left grow faster.

I just don't understand why you would want to convert this life giving molecule to some fuel source.

Why do you want to do that?

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WVUGEO

Jun-19-13 9:51 AM

For one thing, Dolph, converting CO2 into liquid hydrocarbon fuels, as Princeton University, as well, has developed the technologies to do, would make it unnecessary for us to have to go fight any more foreign OPEC oil wars. And, speaking of OPEC, Saudi Arabia, too, has developed an entire suite of technologies for converting CO2 into liquid hydrocarbon fuels. At least one pilot plant is up and running, in Bahrain, we think. It won't be long before we're buying tanker ships full of recycled Coal power plant exhaust from OPEC. If we continue to keep obstinately silent about all of this, that is the future we have to look forward to.

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TrollSlayer

Jun-19-13 9:59 AM

GEO, I hear there’s an industrial site in north Warwood you could build your CO2-to-fuel plant on. Just don’t try to truck or pipe or barge it out, though, because there are some loons in the community who are a little sensitive to noise generated by productive activity of any kind...

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WVUGEO

Jun-19-13 10:15 AM

Troll: Our own US Department of Energy has developed an entire suite of technologies, which they call "Green Freedom (TM)" - yes, they went so far as to officially trademark the name - that uses nice, quiet solar energy, and maybe the wind, which we have to live with in any case, which collects CO2 from the atmosphere and converts it into hydrocarbon fuels. Since the Warwood facility is intended to service the gas industry, numerous entities, including Penn State University, have developed tech that uses nice, quiet solar energy to convert CO2 and H2O into Methane, i.e., substitute natural gas. The only byproduct is nice, pure Oxygen.

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TrollSlayer

Jun-19-13 10:29 AM

Really GEO. Your novel ideas could revolutionize how we distribute energy worldwide. Simply burn coal here, release the CO2 into the atmosphere, let mother nature blow it around the globe, and then convert it to liquid fuel at any location we want for only $3 a gallon – cheaper than Sheets.

Can I get one of those CO2 to gasoline converters for my Prius? Because I might actually be able to make a profit by selling the excess free gasoline it generates to all those “negative nellies” who stubbornly insist on obeying the laws of physics. And the “fact” that you can turn coal and sewage into nothing but snake oil and nice, pure oxygen is a real breakthrough. Kudos!

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WVUGEO

Jun-19-13 10:36 AM

And, back to Coal, our own US Department of Energy, in their report: "'Affordable, Low-Carbon Diesel Fuel from Domestic Coal and Biomass', January 14, 2009; DOE/NETL-2009/1349; Energy Systems Engineer Office of Systems, Analyses, and Planning National Energy Technology Laboratory", demonstrated that Coal and various sorts of waste biomass could be converted together into liquid hydrocarbon fuels, such as Diesel, in a way which was not only cost-competitive with petroleum, but, which resulted in lower overall emissions of greenhouse gas than petroleum.

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WVUGEO

Jun-19-13 10:40 AM

Troll: Don't be deliberately dense. They are obviously not "our" ideas. They are real things being actually practiced by other, genuinely smart and informed, people elsewhere in the world. They have, for instance, in South Africa, been profitably converting Coal into gasoline and diesel for more than half a century. Your public news outlets just obviously don't think you're worthy of being fully informed about the facts of the matter.

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TrollSlayer

Jun-19-13 10:58 AM

GEO, how can I argue with documentation like that? Maybe we could sell our sewage to WVU. Since they’re turning it into $3/gallon fuel they probably want all the sewage they can get...

Talk about "deliberately dense"... LOL

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WVUGEO

Jun-19-13 10:59 AM

And, if you all really think that the oil companies really believe that shale gas is such a big resource, why does Big Oil continue, right now, as seen for one example in: "US Patent 8,461,216 - Process for the Co-Production of Superheated Steam and Methane; June 11, 2013; Shell Oil Company; A process for the co-production of superheated steam and methane includes reacting a gas containing carbon monoxide and hydrogen in a series of methanation regions to produce ... methane ... as a substitute for natural gas. The process ... wherein the gas containing carbon monoxide and hydrogen is synthesis gas obtained by reacting a carbonaceous feed and an oxidant in a gasification reaction (and) wherein the carbonaceous feed comprises coal"; continue to devote time and effort into developing better ways to make a "substitute for natural gas" from coal?

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TrollSlayer

Jun-19-13 11:05 AM

Right, GEO. Those Big Energy companies know there’s no real money to be made from shale gas. The real money is in sewage to snake oil. All those BILLION$ they’re spending on leases and drilling and pipelines and refineries are just a ruse to keep the Canadians from figuring it out until we can corner the snake oil market...

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WVUGEO

Jun-19-13 11:10 AM

Troll: You're flailing aimlessly. Do you have anything of substance to submit, instead of hysterical rehash of your preconceptions?

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WVUGEO

Jun-19-13 11:20 AM

And, since we mentioned both Princeton University and the USDOE in some comments below, we'll note that they collaborated in the development of technology that efficiently uses energy to convert CO2 directly into that darling of the environmental lobby, ethanol. Look up: "US Patent 8,313,634 - Conversion of Carbon Dioxide to Organic Products; 2012; Princeton University; This invention was made with US government support ... . The United States Government has certain rights in this invention. The invention relates to various embodiments of an environmentally beneficial method for reducing carbon dioxide. The methods in accordance with the invention include electrochemically or photoelectrochemically reducing the carbon dioxide ... to provide at least ... ethanol".

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TrollSlayer

Jun-19-13 11:47 AM

GEO “hysterical rehash of your preconceptions”

We’d prefer you refer to it as “amused reminder of what we learned in high school physics class,” please.

If you want a process that “efficiently uses energy to convert CO2 directly into that darling of the environmental lobby, ethanol” try planting corn and setting up a still. Because no process you can think of, regardless of how much Government grant money you can con/bribe some politican out of, can produce more chemical energy than the solar or wind energy it consumes. You can’t break the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Sorry.

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daWraith

Jun-19-13 11:51 AM

WVUEGO can the crap, how much SUBSIDY are the companies in Iceland et al GETTING???

Take away the government support and the market goes to ZIP because it is NOT COST EFFECTIVE.

IF and WHEN it IS cost effective, the FREE MARKET will adopt any SH** that works and gives them MORE PROFIT than conventional fuel sources.

Don't forget, EVIL CORPORATIONS work purely on GREED, right??? So who would NOT want to make more PROFIT????

Until then, FAGHETTABOUTIT!

CO2= PLANT FOOD= uummmh ummm GOOD!

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daWraith

Jun-19-13 11:54 AM

To my point,

I read today that Electric Vehicles (EV) have the WORST depreciation of any vehicle on the road.

The reasons are obvious: they really SUX as a vehicle, the ONLY reason people buy them is for the TAX Subsidy and to feel "good" about being a greenie!

When they are USED, the tax benefit is gone, so hypocrites are REALLY not into paying much money for feeling politically correct!!!!

Hence their resale value is S***t!

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WVUGEO

Jun-19-13 12:05 PM

Troll: Physics, and much else, has advanced considerably since you took high school science back in ought-six. Since we mentioned Bayer Corporation's CO2 recycling initiative in a post or two below, and since this rag won't allow us to post links, an AOL search of "Bayer's Dream Production" retrieves a nice selection of references. Aside from an admirable portfolio of CO2 recycling technologies, some of which involve reacting CO2 with hot Coal to make Carbon Monoxide, which is then used in the further synthesis of polyurethane plastics, and which technologies are well represented in the patent literature, Bayer has also published several attractive brochures for public consumption that describe their CO2-utilization processes. It is all quite real; you simply are not, for whatever unfathomable reason, being informed.

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WVUGEO

Jun-19-13 12:09 PM

Troll: None of the European CO2 recycling is being paid for with government money. And, when did we say anything about electric cars? We're just telling you that other people in the world are, quite profitably according to Chinese reports, converting both Coal and CO2 into liquid hydrocarbon vehicle fuels and plastics manufacturing raw materials.

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