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Obama’s Allies Boiling Over Fracking Plan

June 28, 2013

PITTSBURGH — President Barack Obama’s speech this week on climate change forcefully rejected some key arguments made by opponents of natural gas fracking, upsetting some environmental groups that......

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(18)

TrollSlayer

Jun-29-13 11:21 PM

WVUGEO “in a very energy-efficient way, converts Carbon Dioxide into Methane.” Here’s an even more energy-efficient process. Sell and use the energy you would have used to drive the process instead of burning fuel and producing the CO2 in the first place. Since the Second Law of Thermodynamics is beyond your comprehension I’m sure that makes no sense to you, though.

WVUGEO “freely available solar energy” Where can I get some of that “freely available solar energy”? Because solar is just about the most expensive electricity you can buy right now... Derrrr....

WVUGEO “"town" or "producer" gas” So now you’re advocating coal to carbon monoxide as a safe alternative to fracking? Too funny.

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WVUGEO

Jun-29-13 8:53 PM

And, Wheeldog, we will note, again speaking to the energy invested versus energy returned equation, that, all the way back in the late 1800's, yes, 1800's, there were a couple of designs floated that used focused solar radiation to gasify Coal and convert it into what was known as "town" or "producer" gas, a substitute natural gas - a process that was otherwise accomplished by a partial oxidation of the Coal and, thus, a loss of some of the potential chemical energy inherent in the Coal. They were using freely available solar energy to conserve Coal's more valuable chemical energy in the conversion process.

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WVUGEO

Jun-29-13 8:44 PM

Wheeldog: Yes, absolutely correct. And EROI, or EROEI as it's sometimes written, has been used as an argument by at least 2 or 3 critics of some, not all, shale gas plays; that is, you're not getting as much energy out in the gas as is being put into the drilling, fracking, compressing, pumping, etc. The EROI problem in CO2 recycling is overcome with catalysts, in some cases as in our post below with biological intermediates using enzymes to leverage the reactions; and, in some cases, as they are in Iceland, where they have an abundance of geothermal energy and are using it to convert CO2 into alcohols and hydrocarbons, just using a lot of one type of energy to make less of another one, although one, like the liquid fuels being made in Iceland from CO2, with a lot more economic value and utility. Several folks, by the way, like Panasonic, in Japan, are using otherwise unused solar energy to convert CO2 into Methane.

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Wheeldog

Jun-28-13 9:48 PM

WV, obviously you have a good grasp of the fundamental flaw in energy production. Net energy gain is far more important than gross energy production. If it takes the equivalent of one barrel of oil investment to produce a barrel of finished oil energy product the net gain is zero. The modern energy-intensive economy was built on a net return of 40-to-50 barrels of oil for every barrel equivalent invested. The current-day lifestyle is founded on the assumption that energy, particularly oil, can can continue to be produced abundantly and cheaply.

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WVUGEO

Jun-28-13 8:54 PM

And, even further, a little less than a month and a half ago, on May 14, the US Gov awarded "United States Patent 8,440,438 - Electromethanogenic Reactor and Processes for Methane Production" to Penn State University for a biologically-mediated process that, in a very energy-efficient way, converts Carbon Dioxide into Methane. Sell your Chesapeake stock.

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WVUGEO

Jun-28-13 8:35 PM

And, the entire greenhouse debate about Coal should be just about over, in any case. A little less than three weeks ago, on June 11, 2013, the US Government awarded "US Patent 8,461,215 - Rendering Coal As An Environmentally Carbon Dioxide Neutral Fuel" to the University of Southern California. The invention is described as "a method for rendering coal as an environmentally essentially carbon dioxide-neutral fuel. Carbon dioxide produced from coal combustion is captured, purified, combined with ... methane or with hydrogen, and reacted under reaction conditions sufficient to form methanol and/or dimethyl ether, which can be used as fuel or feedstock for derived synthetic hydrocarbons and products". The "dimethyl ether", DME, is, with some minor engine mods, a serviceable diesel fuel, and can substitute for LPG. Both it and Methanol can be converted into Gasoline.

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daWraith

Jun-28-13 8:06 PM

"Good" President:

"German Chancellor Angela Merkel said that she blocked a draft European Union law aimed at reducing carbon-dioxide emissions from cars over concerns the measure would cost jobs in the auto industry.

A coalition of EU states led by Germany prevented approval of the measure at a meeting of diplomats in Brussels earlier this week. Merkel said that she moved to delay the proposal -- which would cap average carbon discharges by passenger vehicles in the bloc at 95 grams a kilometer in 2020 -- to defend jobs."

Maybe she can run in 2016 to turn around America before it is too late.

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daWraith

Jun-28-13 8:02 PM

Wienerdawg, if you really believe that, that why are you hanging around being a pain in the a&& to the movers and shakers?

Dude, surrender your carbon footprint to somebody who values it.

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WVUGEO

Jun-28-13 7:55 PM

Wheeldog is absolutely right about EROI. And, in fact, production decline rates in some shale gas wells are so steep that the EROI actually ends up being negative for those wells, thus dragging down the average EROI for the entire field. Nat gas is just not, unlike Coal, or, to a lesser extent, oil, a high energy density medium. You need to produce a lot of it in order to equal and exceed the amount of energy you put into getting it. Otherwise, it's a waste.

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Wheeldog

Jun-28-13 6:22 PM

Shale gas and oil will not "save" the economy. The EROI (energy return on investment) is simply too small in comparison to the good ole days of cheap conventional oil. It was the heyday of cheap energy (1950s-80s) that resulted in the grand consumer economic experiment. The abundance of easily developed light sweet crude spurred industry, suburban expansion, the auto culture and sending man to the moon. Those days are gone, and the future does not look anywhere near as bright. We are in the wind down stage of an empire.

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UNCOMMONSENSE

Jun-28-13 6:14 PM

Just the latest scam to fool the low IQ lemmings!!!

Those of us that have lived long enough to see these scams before KNOW better!

The mindless 20 somethings that have had their small minds poisoned by the progressive liberal education system simply lap up the pablum fed by their progressive liberal teachers!

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richardwhee

Jun-28-13 1:07 PM

These people operate like Josepg Goebbles did in the 30-40"s Tell people enough times and they believe it. I also think his mind is slipping due to the soon death of Mandella.

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daWraith

Jun-28-13 11:18 AM

Obama's job approval rating in Ohio has fallen to 40%, lowest ever.

I think fewer and fewer people are fulled by his bullspit.

Hope and Change have been replaced by "I don't give a shat, I'm da Prez!"

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mikeyd

Jun-28-13 10:01 AM

i don't personally know anyone from here working for the gas industry.they brought all of their own people which is ok.i say mount one of those wind turbine generators to obama's head and let the wind catch those ears.he would look like the exorcist version of mr. potatohead.we have to learn that when this dummy opens his mouth he doesn't know what he is talking about.we lived through our industrial revolution you dummy.if you truly believe that all of these diesel trucks aren't polluting anything or all of those fancy planes you fly in aren't polluting that's just a couple of more things that you don't know.

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WVUGEO

Jun-28-13 9:34 AM

Troll: How many native, full-time resident West Virginians are employed in those efforts? According to Work Force West Virginia numbers, not many. In fact, in some counties where much of the drilling has been taking place, unemployment among West Virginia residents has gone up.

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WVUGEO

Jun-28-13 9:31 AM

Further, much of the Nat Gas baloney sandwich you're being fed has to do with the fact that it generates less CO2 when it's combusted than does Coal. It's not that much less. Depending on it's exact composition, gas can result in about two-thirds the CO2 of Coal on a per-Btu generated basis. Not much of a savings, especially when you take into account the inevitably much higher costs of the electricity. And, one thing nobody likes to tell you is that some nat gas, as it sits in the ground, is already contaminated with some, sometimes a lot, of CO2. When that inherent CO2 is enough to interfere with combustion, or transport economics, they just strip it out near the production point and vent it to the atmosphere. That CO2 doesn't count, apparently, since it doesn't result from power plant combustion.

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TrollSlayer

Jun-28-13 9:30 AM

Right, GEO. Because those wells are drilling themselves, those pipelines are laying themselves, those refineries are constructing themselves... No employment from gas...

Derrrrr...

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WVUGEO

Jun-28-13 9:18 AM

""Obama responded by saying "The bottom line is natural gas is creating jobs"." What jobs, exactly, has it created for WV residents? Workforce West Virginia numbers for the WV counties where most of the drilling has gone on don't support that claim, at all. Once the holes are in and the pipes are laid, all the migrant, non-West Virginians doing nearly all the work now will be gone, the gas will be gone, the relatively very few royalty recipients will have moved to Florida, and, you'll be left with the same economic disaster area you had before, with a few big pipes snaking through and out of it. Keep in mind that Chesapeake Gas donated 27 million bucks to the Sierra Club's "Beyond Coal Campaign". Makes you wonder how much the gas industry donated to Obama's reelection campaign, and, how much they've spent on PR and self-promotion in general to influence the news.

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