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Avoid Higher Electric Bills

August 31, 2013

Tens of millions of Americans are getting what President Barack Obama no doubt hopes is only a reprieve from his drive to force electricity prices skyward....

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LogHog

Sep-01-13 6:14 AM

Hugeo... if what you state is correct, why aren't companies doing this here in the USA in a big way? couldn't be that the process is not profitable could it?

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TrollSlayer

Aug-31-13 7:57 PM

GEO, I didn't say you couldn't make fuel from CO2. I said it will take more energy to turn CO2 to fuel than you will store in the fuel. Therefore you would have been ahead if you just put that energy onto the power grid and burn less fuel in the first place. This isn't hard. You're the one being dense. Either because you can't understand basic physics or you don't want to understand it.

Besides, if it were really a commercially profitable thing to do, someone interested in making a profit would be interested in doing it. So far I hear nothing but you and crickets. That should be a clear sign to anyone who doesn't understand the science. No go find investors and make yourself rich. Or keep selling that snake oil. LOL

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WVUGEO

Aug-31-13 11:58 AM

And, Troll, in a news release, from September 24 of last year, entitled "Fueling the Fleet, Navy Looks to the Seas", which no one around here apparently thought was much of a release of news, the US Navy's Naval Research Laboratory announced that they could make, and maybe at a pilot plant were making, fully-finished JP-8 jet fuel out of Carbon Dioxide at a cost of $3.00 per gallon; which, as of last week, is about a dime below it's current spot price; and most of which price is going straight to OPEC, in any case.

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WVUGEO

Aug-31-13 11:25 AM

Troll, again, you're being deliberately dense. Panasonic, in Japan, has a pilot plant up and running that's using solar energy to convert CO2 into substitute natural gas Methane. It is all well and easily documented. You just not, for whatever suspect reason, are being told about it by your press; and, you are either too unmotivated or too unskilled to do the easy web searches on your own.

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WVUGEO

Aug-31-13 11:21 AM

Troll: Further: Bayer Corporation, who, with their plant north of New Martinsville, should be familiar to most folks around Wheeling, are extracting CO2 from the exhaust of a Coal-fired power plant in Germany and using the CO2 as a raw material for making certain plastics, displacing petroleum-based raw materials. They call the process of recycling/consuming CO2 their "Dream Reaction", and the actual synthesis of plastics from CO2 their "Dream Production". They've printed some attractive and informative marketing brochures about it all; and, the fact that their news releases about it have been ignored by the local WV press, who, one would think, would have an interest in Coal and CO2 issues, must be puzzling to them.

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TrollSlayer

Aug-31-13 11:12 AM

GEO, it's just a mathematical truth that if you put that "environmental energy" directly onto the power grid instead of using it to convert CO2 to fuel, and by doing so reduce your consumption of coal by the amount that would be required to produce that amount of energy contained in that fuel, there will be less energy consumed and wasted as heat. The second law of thermodynamics applies, as always. Unless you find some mystery catalyst that actually violates the law of conservation of energy.

It's snake oil. You have to fool someone to sell it. Either a snake oil buyer or a Congressman. Congressmen are easier to fool, especially if a bribe is involved. But you can't fool Mother Nature, so you're wasting your breath on that one. LOL

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WVUGEO

Aug-31-13 11:02 AM

Troll: Don't be dense. The reactions are catalyzed so they don't take that much energy; and, environmental energy is enough to drive them. Audi now has a plant up and running in Germany that's using wind power to make synthetic natural gas Methane out of Carbon Dioxide for their CNG vehicles. The US Navy had a ship designed for them that harnesses ocean thermal currents to drive the conversion of CO2 into jet fuel. It's all well-documented; it is all being done. Pull your head up out of that radioactive shale gas well and look around, do some research. Methanol made from CO2 in Iceland in a process driven by geothermal energy is being sold in filling stations in several European nations.

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TrollSlayer

Aug-31-13 10:46 AM

WVUGEO, there are reasons that American corporations aren’t using energy to convert waste products into LESS energy than they used in the conversion. Your primary obstacles are the laws of physics, and the laws of economics. If you can convince an American corporation you can beat those, you might find a corporation willing to try your coal smoke to snake oil scam.

A cheaper and easier alternative would be to find a politician willing to give you a Government subsidy to convert coal smoke to snake oil at taxpayer expense. That always requires you to provide a campaign contribution kickback. And the illusion of sustainability doesn’t last forever, so make take your profits early and go Solyndra-style with a nice bonus for yourself at the end. That’s the "green" model these days.

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WVUGEO

Aug-31-13 10:35 AM

Noted that someone clicked "disagree" on our comment concerning Saudi Arabia and their technology for recycling CO2. This paper's readership is well-conditioned. "Syngas" or "synthesis gas", by the way, is a blend of Carbon Monoxide and Hydrogen which can be catalytically condensed to make all sorts of hydrocarbons; and, Saudi Arabia knows how to make it out of Carbon Dioxide. See, for another example: "US Patent 8,288,446 - Catalytic Hydrogenation of CO2 into Syngas Mixture; October 16, 2012; Assignee: Saudi Basic Industries Corporation, Riyadh." One or two news reports have it that the Saudis have a CO2-recycling pilot plant up and running in Bahrain. You all are being done a grave disservice by having the truth withheld from you. A silent press will allow your Coal plants to be shut down because of Cap and Trade taxation, while you all will be buying Saudi gasoline at the pumps for five bucks a gallon; gasoline that's been made from Carbon Di

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WVUGEO

Aug-31-13 8:22 AM

Look: We've repeated time and again in the comments sections of op-eds like this that the byproducts of Coal use have great value, and, that we're just not being fully informed. More than that: We are being subtly ridiculed by the rest of the world and by our own government because of our stubborn ignorance. As an example, consider: Just this past 4th of July, our national Independence Day, a holiday mind you, our government saw fit to have people go to work and publish, officially on the Fourth of July: "US Patent Application 20130168966 - Method for Conversion of Carbon Dioxide into Hydrocarbons; Date: July 4, 2013; Inventors: Mazen Abdullah Ba-Abbad, et. al., Riyadh, Saudi Arabia; Assignee: King Saud University, Riyadh". And, it is exactly what it sounds like: Technology to convert CO2 into synthetic petroleum products from which gasoline and diesel can be refined. We are being duped. We are being secretly made fun of. We are being, because of our ignorance, taken advanta

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WVUGEO

Aug-31-13 7:26 AM

Commendable as the sentiments expressed about Coal and the value of the electricity generated from it herein might be, there are facts about the real value of Coal which no one, like this author, seems willing to do the work necessary to learn about and make fully known. When it comes to generating genuinely affordable electric power with Coal, the complaints seem to center on the byproducts. Right now, at several locations in Europe, CO2 is being harvested and then converted into, variously, the fuel alcohol Methanol, substitute natural gas Methane, and the chemical raw materials for manufacturing certain plastics. In some cases, environmental energy, like wind power and sunlight, is being harnessed to drive the processes. In China, Coal Ash is being treated as an ore, from which they are extracting Aluminum, Iron and other metals. The remaining Ash is used in making cement and concrete. We just are not being fully informed.

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Wvcoffee

Aug-31-13 6:43 AM

You are laughable "Utilities, attempting to hold customers' bills down, used more coal." Really think any one will believe your poppycock?

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